Q&A with the Founders


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(01:02) foreign [Music] the last but certainly not least session what’s up Andrew how are you doing good good happy to be here all right thanks for making it third year in a row we were prep a little bit before um you know it’s meant to be a casual session unfortunately yeah I don’t think everybody knows but JJ’s just not feeling well so we couldn’t couldn’t join but since his best uh but Andrew Lee is here CEO and uh co-founder of purse and of course the handshake protocol and uh so this is gonna be q a mostly so

(01:49) please everyone use the Q a tab not the chat but the tab so he’s I think most of you figure that out from the sessions I’ll be here to help moderate and fill questions if if there aren’t but I have a feeling it’ll be enough um and then we um we can uh get start I think the first started if what I’m noticing is there’s a lot of newer newer blood here which is great so even I don’t really know exactly the Orange’s story exactly like we’re chatting because I know you know you had already

(02:21) had a purse going when handshake started and I even thought it kind of was incubated in purse so do you mind kind of giving and starting it off with like a little origin story of of handshake how it yeah sure for sure yeah well first off thanks thanks Mike for hosting this uh for three years in a row as well as jayhan and um in your entire team there um it’s been really amazing I think it’s really important for the entire Community um so yeah I appreciate you doing that um yeah like like you know like we had

(02:52) nothing to do with kind of like starting this whole conference and yeah it just kind of happened um so yeah your question about kind of the origin story so well and this by the way this is all from my perspective um you know I don’t represent all the other co-founders I don’t represent handshake I don’t you know there’s no Foundation there’s no company so um you know everything I say will just kind of just be from my perspective and My Views um so uh yeah I mean I guess going back even before purse and why I got

(03:22) interested in Bitcoin in the first place um I’ve generally just I mean I think I’ve been most kind of like a rebel like my entire life you know I didn’t really like being told what to do um and and I think I’ve just kind of um optimized for um you know Freedom personal freedom and things like that um and uh and so yeah I mean I guess when I first found like you know kind of stumbled across um stumbled across Bitcoin thought this was really interesting kind of started this company um but you know like the way we I ran

(03:57) and Iran purse is um like you know I wanted to find other people that kind of had had you know felt the same way about um uh you know about like personal freedom and things like that and so um I did my best um to kind of attract the um the most interesting smartest people you know that that that um that were across the space um including you know I’ve been friends with you know JJ Joseph and the other Andrew for a really long time um and uh you know even within the company the way we hired nodar um and uh you know Matt Zipkin and

(04:34) things like that um and we we just kind of hired hired people and just really didn’t tell them what to do um and just kind of like ran it like kind of like a studio so um so yeah like the the idea to launch Bitcoin was not my idea um you know JJ just kind of did that um which kind of evolved from a code base respect effective into um to handshake and handshake itself well you know it wasn’t my idea either I mean it just kind of you know brought some people together you know JJ Joseph and Andrew and um the idea and I think Aaron

(05:06) kind of mentioned this um in his last talk but like the idea behind you know domain names on a blockchain just makes a lot of sense um and so yeah we started working on um so like yeah I guess Bitcoin went live maybe 2015 or 2016. um for you guys that don’t know it’s a full node Bitcoin implementation and written in node.

(05:30) js um and uh and then we started thinking um and then you know around 2017 18 um around kind of like you know what can we do with um what can we do with with this technology that we built um like infrastructure for Bitcoin um Beyond um you know beyond kind of like the purpose for Bitcoin and so um so so I mean that’s kind of where um the ideas for handshake emerged um we we did the raise in 2018 um uh you know we uh we raised 10 million dollars from you know a lot of these uh Sandhill type VCS as well as people in the crypto ecosystem including

(06:07) you know jaehan but also like you know a16z Founders fund Sequoia Etc um and we did something interesting we took that money and just gave it all away um I think we gave it all away in three months um you know we had an svb account but you know it doesn’t affect us because we gave all the money away um yeah and so uh yeah so um yeah that was a while ago um and and I guess in 2018 19 um and uh and then we then the network launched in 2020 and um since then I mean we’ve kind of you know did a Satoshi style you know we’ve been kind

(06:45) of uh we launched a network and kind of stepped back um for the con for the community to kind of take hold um yeah we didn’t have anything to do with you know I guess Andy Khan name base um or or and you know the any of these companies Origins but um yeah from my perspective you know I’m not the Creator I didn’t write the code I didn’t design design handshake I didn’t write the white paper um my I um like I I mean my role was I brought kind of the smartest people that I could find together

(07:15) um yeah I think you know Joseph is um a world-class mechanism designer um responsible for you know lightning Network as well as kind of a lot of the ideas around ethereum scaling um and uh JJ is like phenomenal long it’s a phenomenal protocol developer um you know you rewrote all of Bitcoin um just like I don’t know I guess in a few months um something that like I don’t think any other person or team or you know anybody could really actually pull off um yeah when he first did that I was when he said first said I’m going to

(07:46) rewrite all the Bitcoin I was just like wait are you sure about that you know um but uh but he pulled that off and you know they pulled off this network and you know I I think um I think we really with handshake we really brought together you know the best mechanism designer um mechanism designer as well as the best you know kind of protocol engineer at the launch the coin and uh in the network and um and it’s been that was that was basically the whole idea from my perspective great great yeah we’re getting questions

(08:17) so I’m just I said in chat but I say it in audio please upvote so help me out uh I’ll just try my best to decide but it’s pretty clear already some of the top ones why the name handshake do you know yeah so I mean I didn’t come up with the name handshake either um uh how did that come about um I mean I I think it had maybe something to do with like you know like a handshake and yeah I don’t really know to be honest I don’t know the answer um okay I think we might have had a whiteboard at some point where we just

(08:50) had a bunch of names and we’re putting out you know like and handshake just kind of stuck okay that’s cool all right Market answered uh why no combination of name base I mean I don’t know if you can answer it I didn’t yeah no I didn’t have anything to do with um you know founding name base or um uh or anything and why there’s no competition I I have no idea um yeah I don’t know if anybody’s building another type of a name base or any of these things yeah again like just to reiterate from my

(09:24) perspective like yeah like like Andrew said I I started actually this handshake conference handicon started on a podcast I did which a hand after I saw his DOT nft news I invited him on my Blog podcast Global from Asia uh it’s on it’s not even you know and uh and then in the interview he says why don’t you just uh I said how I do events he said how heated ethereum meetups in Hong Kong and and stuff and I said let’s do it and we did it you know and in two weeks we did hand first hand and name base I believe the story was

(09:57) you know a lot of people know Tia Sean uh and uh and I think Anthony Liu was the CTO co-founder and others and I guess they raised funding I think of a some of the funding with similar investors as handshake but yeah like anybody could start a competitor with name base if they wanted to um and people complain about the flamingo auction like why their name isn’t included in the auction they submitted a good name blah blah blah they complained to me or other people or event on Twitter anybody could start a

(10:25) flamingo henchy auction there’s not like only one and others have done live auctions it so there’s no permission that’s the whole point of a permissionless protocol so let’s see what else so that’s you know and I’ll add that there’s been like Mount Cox didn’t have too many competitors for a really long time either um until they started like kind of having problems and so um yeah coinbase trade hell you know these kinds of companies emerged several years after Mount Cox kind of got

(10:52) founded so yeah man Cox enjoyed a monopoly for a while okay next we’ll get invoted up there before is uh from ABCD I I know some people don’t like air meat man all right I know they’re a lot Anonymous but yeah you can just put a b c d uh whatever man uh was it beneficial to give away all raised money did it bring any expected results well um I mean the giving away money part like on all aspects all dimensions of handshakes so not only did we give Fiat away we gave away the coins um you know like everything was given

(11:32) away without expectation for anything in return um and and so so I mean yeah yeah and I think um uh you know there’s been discussions around that and I think you know there’s there’s a few few projects like gnome and things that that blogged about and Jake um about Their donation and things like that and others just really didn’t do much with it um and uh yeah I don’t know I mean that was kind of one of the primary um philosophies or you know maybe it’s an experiment kind of going into it but

(12:03) um but but the expectation for for no returns we didn’t ask anything in return so I don’t think they did anything wrong um because we didn’t ask for anything but um yeah so so I mean um did it had the expected results I mean really it was I I don’t know I I don’t think we had too many expectations of it so I mean we just gave away the money they took it I know we could check the white papers and such because how much are you just saying just 18 million was it or what was it no no it’s 10.2 million that we raised and we

(12:37) gave away 10.2 million exactly yeah so just give a couple of groups you know it went to like the air uh the GitHub developer airdrop was a bigger chunk oh yeah so so yeah so there’s Fiat and then there’s um there’s the coins so the largest person so the Fiat um of the 10.2 million um I mean you can still see it on handshake.

(13:04) org um like the sponsors or Community page or something like that um there’s a whole list of them um they were mostly open source non-profits um as well as kind of like uh organizations that kind of advocated for it like eff um Linux Foundation these kinds of things okay so yeah even I’m I’m yeah so there’s two parts there’s the coin which also has the air drops but then there’s actual funds which you just gave away you know I mean there are some hardcore people and you know like we’ve seen some pretty raw like memes on Twitter and uh yeah

(13:40) you know I mean it’s a much different style than other blockchain domain competitors that took PC money and you know uh paid Facebook and uh and Tick Tock ads or whatever right so it’s a totally different strategy um and sadly those ones get short-term uh uh benefit but I guess hopefully in the long term as this stands to test a time uh and uh some people might not agree with that but I think it’s beautiful it’s attracted me to this project you know personally I mean I think some people are attracted to the idea of

(14:13) giving money to open source developers and and non-profits to because that’s what you know that’s what it’s about you know um you know I I don’t want to live in a world that is Facebook and Google owned you know it’s a scary world well I mean and also this type of conference you know like I think if we had kept the money and kept it in some Foundation it would be like our responsibility to hold these kinds of things so there is um and you know like like for example Defcon and all the econ and those kinds

(14:47) of things are also conducted by the Youth Foundation um so they still kind of have that um responsibility but also like leads to some centralization I guess um you know in that they’re the only ones sorry Brantley like he even says the airdrop is responsibility I remember he was saying it on Twitter when they air dropped ens uh to people and uh yeah so by taking that money and making Foundation because you guys are pretty much against making I remember I’m not so early but I came in 2020 and I remember

(15:20) there was resistance to making foundations raising money uh even the first handicond there was discussions about you know uh making a founding making foundations but I feel like a lot it’s kind of like anti-bitcoin you know whereas ethereum is a little bit more about um uh like a little bit more yeah like you said a little bit more about um organization let’s just say maybe so you you guys are there’s trade-offs yeah there’s trade-offs as well yeah for sure okay I’m looking at you know I think so

(15:55) Vita Ridgeway she’s up here uh she’s great I don’t know if you saw her talk um it’s really great we need more women and and I’ve encouraged more women to share um thank you Vita I hope that’s not almost negative because I don’t want to just highlight that you’re a woman but I appreciate that Andrew what is your vision for handshake where would you like to see it go as far as use cases yeah so um you know handshake just kind of generally being a censorship resistant technology um uh yeah I I I tend to think that a

(16:32) lot of the use cases revolve around or revolve around kind of use cases where um use cases that are prone to censorship or use cases where people would want a sensor um kind of saw that I mean what what like like if you if you kind of see the evolution of Bitcoin adoption um I mean when I was when I first got interested in Bitcoin I mean Silk Road was a pretty powerful kind of demonstration of like hey this is um censorship resistant money um and uh and so so I mean I can’t so what would that be for handshake I mean

(17:08) it’s hard to tell but um I I do think you know like these these people who who are getting canceled the platform um things of that nature um I think are a a good good place where you know um like where where there’s value um and having you know censorship resistant name or censorship resistant website um and uh and so so yeah I mean I think since hand Jake launched um like I think there’s been a lot of acceleration on that front in terms of like cancel culture and um and things like yeah I agree with that one

(17:44) I think we’re all starting to see it and it’s gonna get more and more clear in my opinion of censorship increasing which is scary um is that we have more sorry I don’t want it yeah I think we have a lot of questions here um there’s more and more coming and some are getting uploaded really fast which is great that’s helpful please keep the votes so it makes my job a little bit easier I really want to get the top questions to be asked um and we will extend this to be 40 minutes total I mean I don’t know how

(18:15) much longer but it will go a little bit past it’ll be the 40 minute time that we had allotted push back this one moved up pretty quickly from Robert right uh shakes that’s you know younger guy in Australia really passionate in a very important um is the growth of the ecosystem currently exceeding your initial expectations well so I mean I don’t know I mean I think as as um people who kind of participate in the creation of these networks um I think your expectation like most of the time the expectations are pretty

(18:51) wrong like um like like you know like like for example um uh Satoshi like wrote a white paper about like peer-to-peer money right um and uh and you know in terms of that like if you if Satoshi were around and you asked him like Hey has that like actually happened I don’t know I mean despite it going to you know like the large value hundreds of billion dollar market cap um I mean maybe he kind of saw that going with Silk Road and like during the during the early days when it was uses money more um but then it’s kind of declined and

(19:23) turned into more the store value kind of narrative um and uh I I think the education part is kind of um is is hard to assess but um but I mean but one area is like the airdrop developer airdrop um you know the claims of you know I think somewhere around two three percent um I I certainly expected that to be higher um in terms of like you you know on that aspect of things um because um but uh yeah I mean I I do think you know that’s something to kind of for the community to kind of consider um uh uh but in terms of growth of the

(20:03) ecosystem I didn’t really have you know like two I didn’t necessarily have any too many expectations other than um I I did expect the uh airdrop claims to be a to be high I guess one thing about the airdrops because I have friend I’ve had friends claim I didn’t I’m not I I didn’t qualify but uh some of my friends did and they didn’t have to keep they didn’t remember their keys from that time and they jump into program and they there’s I don’t honestly I don’t know how GitHub

(20:30) worked but they couldn’t get it even though maybe their SSH key they lost their SS HP or they’ll be keyed or something like that yeah I mean I’ve heard that as well their key changed yeah so they didn’t have the old key um but oh yeah to one one thing I did at uh I would add like the um the growth from the domain kind of community like the domain um like I I think that’s been that was unexpected on the upside like like you know I didn’t we weren’t really necessarily thinking about that too much

(21:02) um maybe had we we would have kind of designed the um airdrop or something a little differently um but yeah I don’t know it’s it I guess it was kind of relatively mixed I expected higher on the airdrop claims but didn’t expect kind of the the interest from the domain Community which was pretty cool yeah it’s definitely um I think it was a lot of people found out from namescon I think earlier names Khan um I heard about it from the domain Community I’m not I mean I’m more e-commerce seller but I friends are in

(21:36) the domain space and keep me informed into I think it got from the these events uh but yeah okay I’m looking for other top voted questions not answered uh looks like next one is ABCD again do you participate in handshake these days if not do you think it would be more responsible to keep participating in his shakes instead of kind of fading I I guess that’s also can be rewarded as why are you and other co-founders not at least publicly as active in some people see that as like you know I guess it’s negative positive

(22:15) or negative but yeah I mean well one thing we’ve noticed with other projects is like the founders do or like you know the creators or co-creators or or whatever the term is it they do kind of if they are active they do tend to kind of suck the energy and out of the system I mean to the point where they’re kind of like the focal point um like vitalik is for for ethereum or um or actually you could probably name it and point to any project and kind of it usually has kind of these Dynamics um and that from our perspective hinders

(22:51) kind of um the uh like you know decentralization and in these aspects of it um yeah I mean I am I’ve been buying I have names um you know I definitely like I follow the telegram I see it you know all the cool things that are being built um I mean but but it’s mostly just kind of about a personal interest um I don’t one I don’t feel like I have a obligate like like a mandate or anything like that to do that but but on the other hand you know um I do still find it interesting I I have I hold all the coins and um or you

(23:27) know I haven’t sold any coins I’m still you know very interested in this um in this project and and kind of like that aspect so and I think that’s the same for all the other uh all the other co-founders too okay that’s good to know yeah I mean just mix feedback but I kind of agree that if you I mean if the creators were active it would discourage people from stepping up although I wish more people would step up because it’s kind of happening to me right like I’m active and people are like

(23:59) ex I guess it’s human nature like they want to have somebody to like a person to like yeah like look at and blame or ask you know it’s like I think it’s human nature to say oh this person’s responsible and I will ask this person why not this why when they could of course everybody’s busy we’re all busy I’m busy but uh okay that experience I mean I think Satoshi I think Satoshi had the right model and then once you like to just kind of step away um like metallic I I don’t I don’t know

(24:34) if you feel stuck in this you know stuck like what if italic just stopped tweeting and stop writing blogs and and these kinds of things um so like I don’t know if he feels a little stuck with it I don’t really know but um but yeah I do I do think if you want to decentralized project the founders should have just kind of or like need to step up and step aside so that other people can kind of get the spotlight and other people can kind of feel the um yeah I don’t know like yeah but but I I do agree I think that’s important

(25:07) okay h s broker station is broker he’s really always helpful been around longer than me he says who designed a logo you might not know but maybe you know oh um I do know about that um it was a design firm Ideo Ideo um idea they also like they designed the I right I think Legend has it that they designed the Mouse um but uh yeah idea designed for Apple yeah great Mark is answered next one is Ricardo Rothschild he came in later he talked yesterday he you know he uh he’s buying his way in appreciate and uh and

(25:48) iterating his projects to make it fit here do you think we should extend the claim period for Reserve tlds yes um so so for people who are who aren’t familiar I mean those are um like the hundred thousand Alexa um Alexa names like you know like um so if you can prove you own like google.

(26:10) com then you can get like dot Google um this kind of thing um I I and I I believe it it expires maybe at the first happening um but yeah so yeah I definitely do think that should be extended otherwise you know I mean it kind of defeats the purpose yeah yep okay yeah I think that’s kind of been consensus so far um I mean one thing I would add though is like maybe if there was kind of like an extension for those those names maybe like instead of having the top hundred thousand Alexa maybe like limiting it to like the top 10 000 or something you

(26:49) know or something of that degree because I do think the bottom ones do kind of like yeah they are the most popular workplace anymore um get me expired yeah yeah yeah so there’s a lot of like churn and those kinds of things on at the bottom of the list but yeah the top hun maybe I don’t know if it’s somebody should look at that like yeah I mean to let Google go and then somebody gets to handshake Google like yeah that would not be yeah yeah so maybe like the top thousand maybe the top ten thousand but something of that

(27:21) sort yeah okay great um trying to keep track Here Andrew Alex Nino yeah product designer at name base and also made the app HS switch very cool very cool yeah great uh thanks he says Andrew what was Slash is your vision of the utility of hns I’m not sure if he means the coin or the protocol but that’s the question but maybe yeah maybe it’s similar I mean I I think there’s kind of two use cases either for domains or for like identity um and and they may be a little different I think antique does as a

(28:03) protocol accommodate both um in terms of where I see I I you know it’s it’s hard for me to tell I I don’t I I I’m kind of indifferent as to like where where it kind of takes off but um but yeah I think yeah either of those use cases I guess make sense okay great Mark answered uh pay from dot domains or sponsor here uh also I uh OG bitcoiner from I don’t want to expose more making Samsung but thank you okay uh as a pow blockchain how big of a hashary handshake has to be considers here some people some other competitors

(28:52) Alternatives say pick on pow or they pick on our hash rate and they say see look it’s just it’s just insecure blah blah they pick on it because the hash rate you know especially in the bear Market in the early stages um anyway that’s the question I’ll leave yeah I mean I I think um yeah so like the 51 attack kind of idea like it’s a little different from proof of work versus proof of mistake right if you have 51 of like majority of uh like steak staking um validators that are however you phrase that for proof of stake

(29:29) um there’s a lot more you can do with than um 51 approval work chain like like just because you have 51 percent of handshake chain doesn’t mean you can like reverse name ownership or reallocate coins or or you know sensor transactions well I mean just only kind of temporarily um I mean I don’t I don’t have like a number in mind if if that’s uh you know in terms of like where um where you know I think that will kind of work but um yeah I mean I do think like the design expected switching from like

(30:02) um the initial hashing algorithm that was in the paper to um shot three or or like I mean I I generally there was a debate about that and I do think we kind of expected Asics evolve either way um and so um so yeah yeah you know you know I don’t have a specific number in mind or anything like that yeah okay I mean you know Stephen Mackey’s also was involved involved you know at person and with this and he speaks a lot about it but I think people like you had said you know I think there’s specific competitors I don’t

(30:37) want to bring up their names but they’ve specifically say in their home page of their website that handshake is not secure like straight up they just straight up say it on their home page I think some people might know who I’m talking about but I don’t feel like even saying her name they say handshake is the biggest alternative to our solution but we are better because we’re on ethereum and uh handshake is insecure because it’s layer one proof of work with the low hash rate and they are not

(31:04) secure basically is what the person says the creator of that project and he uses that constantly um yeah I don’t know I don’t know if a multi-sig is much better but but uh you know held by a few parties is much better but but yeah I mean I don’t know I mean this we’re obviously on that side and there’s there’s people on the other side so pay again and getting another one top loaded can handshake fit into Bitcoin Maxi narrative hard money and hard root the only two blockchain usage why can’t

(31:34) bitcoiners see this I think actually you’re not sharing about this before so this question came up you know yeah you’re a bitcoiner right you said you were let me started on there so yeah um well so um so Bitcoin I I think the like Bitcoin maximalism um generally as an idea I think is a um is a reaction to seeing like in the first version we’re like you know back back in the day when there was just like uh you know Bitcoin Forks like you know Litecoin feather coin you know this coin that kind of thing

(32:13) um Bitcoin maximalism was kind of this like reaction to that saying like hey you know bitcoin’s the the only like you know Bitcoin is is the is the true coin in that from that perspective and and it’s also I mean so so that reaction if you kind of trace it back came from other coins that were basically doing the same thing as Bitcoin right um so they were kind of like you you know if you think about Bitcoin Litecoin really like or Dogecoin like how different are they um it doesn’t those those new Forks

(32:42) don’t didn’t really add um like any other kind of utility right um but but um but then like the second wave of like other coins like non-bitcoin coins um with like ethereum and you know eat killers and erc20 tokens and things like that um and so like I mean I think then like that argument is a little different because you know wait wait while ethereum is different it can do things that Bitcoin can’t um and uh and so um so then it’s like well all those other things are ponzis or all those other things are

(33:14) centralized and you know maybe there’s some points there but um but not like completely um I mean I haven’t really like when I talk to like Bitcoin Maxis um I’m not talking about like the Bitcoin Maxes it’s like so so I understand like the Bitcoin Maxi perspective if they were like you know like from like 2012 2013 I don’t know anything before like 2017 right but the post 27 Bitcoin 2017 vaccines are like well they see ethereum they see other functionality but like it’s Bitcoin only right and and that perspective I have I

(33:50) have a hard time kind of like um understanding um but like the original like hey you know um the original Bitcoin thing we’re like hey you can’t just Fork Bitcoin and make another coin and like you know and call and say you know that’s that has Bitcoin values I I I do sympathize with um and but so so with with the you know kind of like the way I would think about that is like well handshake is different and Jake does offer different values or different utility compared to bitcoin um and uh yeah I don’t know I don’t know

(34:22) what you can do with the post like 2017 Bitcoin Maxis because I think they’re mostly kind of like I don’t know maybe I think they like aren’t not yeah people names they’re kind of like midwitch or something of that sort and and and and so like I mean I think they just kind of see um the Bitcoin Maxi flag and just want to belong or something um but um but yeah um but in terms of like yeah I mean I like for example I’ve talked to like um a lot of Bitcoin maximalists and when I present handshake they do understand

(34:55) that it’s different that they do understand this is something that can that can’t be done on bitcoin um and they do just kind of see value of it um like like um yeah I mean I’ve recently spoke with like the nostril guy the lead there from Noster and you know they’re like completely Bitcoin Maxis over there but like with handshake like they’re they definitely agree this is a better system than um than the I can domain name system so I I I definitely think you can reason with a lot of Bitcoin Maxes

(35:24) um it’s but um the yeah I think superlink has gotten Noster if this is the same one support or integration I believe or I heard something I hope I’m not I don’t just so I’ve seen I haven’t verified that one okay we we got a little bit more time uh Colin Burke block domains got uploaded one do you own any tlds if so what’s your favorite besides your own name if applicable I guess you don’t have to answer that but I guess um oh wait what was the question is there do I have a favorite memes or

(35:58) tlds you have and if what’s your favorite or whatever I guess everybody’s curious if you have domains on handshake or which ones or what’s your favorite like and I think yeah I do but I I think like exposing them is kind of like outside the purpose of it I mean I don’t know I don’t really know if I want to docs and names I have but um yeah but if I do anything with them then I’ll then I’ll I’ll definitely like yeah I like that I mean that’s that’s the point of uh of handshake is privacy so

(36:27) um okay thank you Mark of course people can share what they want but don’t have to uh ABCD again this guy’s got a lot of good ones uh who’s on the core team these days I don’t even Define what is core team mean uh as a definition um I I think there’s been some concern or questions like you know you mentioned Zipkin he’s not been around um I’ve talked to him but I you know I guess what does core team mean even what does that even mean and who is who are they asked maybe a question yeah so

(36:59) usually this idea of core team refers to the team of developers that work on the reference implementation um and so so this is a very developer focused kind of question um and uh and so like who’s maintaining I guess hsd or who’s working on hsd um that you can just go on GitHub and kind of like see see who’s working on it and who’s like contributing into it and I yeah I think Zipkin was um did a lot um uh and uh and I think nodar is doing quite a bit of work um but you know I I I I haven’t really

(37:36) you know I I haven’t really been kind of um well okay all right so so on this core team thing and then and I see this on Twitter too do like especially coming from like um from like Electric Capital and things like that they have like a dashboard on um you know who’s working on these developers and GitHub merges and GitHub like uh uh like like like I guess they just scraped that kind of data and see um see and but but like that metric alone like I think is a little misleading because um and and I tried to like kind of I

(38:08) think I posted this on telegram but it’s probably worth restating um I think yeah so crypto speeds a lot yeah yeah so cryptos change a lot um since since it’s like you know and not every project in crypto like like has kind of the same ideals of like decentralization and these kinds of things um so like like I I personally think um this is a person again a personal belief like that um that like handshake like yes of course like you know like okay if you even even if you go back and think about how much Bitcoins change and

(38:45) how much the core team the court like core developer team uh Dev team has um like worked on bitcoin core um like it’s in terms of like actual like features and things that they’ve released has been pretty minimal right we had segwit in 2017 and like you know Tap Root and this kind of stuff recently um and and those are I mean those aren’t like big changes that people are like using I guess with the exception of like ordinals now which they don’t like so I don’t know that’s a little odd

(39:15) um but uh yeah I mean I so I so in general I think like crypto should be thought of like I don’t know there should be some kind of bifurcation between um projects that are like kind of complete and projects that they’re still working on because of course if you track developer activity projects that are like people are still working on are going to have more developers because they’re still working on it and trying to finish it whereas like handshake like Bitcoin was kind of you know released as a um as a finished protocol I mean all

(39:47) the features were built in there’s no like hey like we got to write more code to make this happen and hey we got it I mean that kind of stuff doesn’t exist and so unless there’s like an actual need for changes like need for new things to happen um like you know I’m not I’m I don’t I don’t really understand the argument that like a core team of like active developers that are paid by the community or wherever like has to exist um like I I and that’s more like a Bitcoin like kind of um perspective

(40:17) whereas like ethereum you know I mean they just moved to proof of stake and that required a lot of developers then they have a long road map of things that they still want to do um and so that’ll require more developers and um and so it’s not it’s like an incomplete product at least from their perspective um so like you know I mean it like look again if handshake if there were more features and things that people wanted to do with handshake I I assume we would need more core developers and these kinds of things would would be necessary

(40:50) um I I think um you know projects like Bitcoin and handshake are more like you know what what needs to happen is more on the adoption side um as well as like building use cases building things on top of it Integrations Etc um and uh and that’s that’s a bigger priority than you know kind of there’s a projects that are still being developed okay yeah you did say in a telegram group uh Andrew’s you know I don’t say active but you participate in the in the main handshake telegram group uh when

(41:23) there’s questions that and so I remember you had said uh you said I’ll just summarize what how I interpreted it but you said there’s two ways that a blockchain can come out one is products already done and it’s marketing and the other is it has you even gave the terms but I thought that was a good little paragraph yeah adoption in progress and development in progress so um yeah like your handshake Bitcoin or more like adoption in progress whereas um whereas a lot of other projects are like development and projects you know

(41:56) that’s why they have the foundations that’s what that’s why they have developers as employees um that’s why you know and that makes sense but like yeah but yeah yeah I mean initially crypto wasn’t wasn’t like that yeah so handshake came out working right like I know everyone wants like to watch GitHub and see developers and see a centralized foundation with money hiring programmers and watching how many people are contributing to GitHub to see if it’s an active project that’s not dead

(42:22) but Angie came out working already there’s been some modifications and and some like little holes that have been plugged over the years that you know yeah but you don’t need to have a huge team it’s I don’t want to say boring but boring is bitcoin’s boring right it’s just money right I mean handshake is just a root Zone there’s not not much more that needs to be done on it I mean so I mean I kind of you know I’m drinking the Kool-Aid but I kind of I kind of see the same thing but it’s

(42:53) funny it’s again back to human nature humans want to have something that’s not yet released and they’re buying into a uh product coming soon when is products and then they they’re hyped in and then they buy into something that’s not yet released but handshake was working from mainnet right it was a working project like you said so it just needed so yeah so I mean I think we can still have things like that that are built on top like you know they’re I guess like name base had demoed and previewed a bunch of

(43:21) features that are coming out and people there’s anticipation building up for that um you know super link that um super link I like you know some alerts and so so I mean I I do think we can kind of build that kind of similar type of anticipation but um at the protocol level I mean it’s just you know Bitcoin handshake these things are you know relatively boring um and uh and it should be because you don’t really I mean they’re um yeah it’s kind of like the Lindy effect and these kinds of things like the longer they’re

(43:48) around the more the more they’re going to be trusted yeah so I hope this is helpful let me see I think we’re at kind of at maybe in overtime a little bit but um I think I got most of it just still not top voted but but uh let me see I saw one about collisions from Alex that kind of got moved up to like a 6-0 i yeah it’s yeah it’s about collisions so what do you think about these collisions you know um there’s other blockchain projects coming out and I know you the protocol handshake was designed not to collide

(44:23) especially with the current I can there was one or two a little bit to slip through the cracks or whatever but you know I know handshake wasn’t designed to collide there was that I like that clip with JJ last time or two about soft Fork of the internet but um there’s collisions now there’s collisions there’s people popping up blockchain projects for fun every week I see people talking about it on Twitter opening up new blockchain project domain project um so what do you thought think about all that

(44:51) yeah yeah I don’t know it’s kind of funny because we had a name Collision like just from the onset like you know there’s two Andrew Elise on this project yeah um yeah I I think my collisions are just they’re going to they’re going for they’re going to be inevitable I mean I I don’t know a lot of the like dot wallet or dot crypto or dot coin right or those the the like the ud ones like I I think people will see through it and like see what you know you can and cannot do with these kinds of coins

(45:22) and how they work um I I think future collisions are probably inevitable in the design yes you know just because like for browsers it would be kind of confusing if you went to um like you know other if if we collided a lot with like I can um domains like it would be hard to kind of understand like how the browser would handle it or different resolvers would handle it um but uh so yeah we try to minimize collisions as much as possible but like since launch I I do think collisions are probably um inevitable and yeah and probably not a big deal

(45:57) yep okay I think we I mean there’s a few but I don’t feel like they’re they’re not uploaded or not they’re somewhat answered already or not really worth bringing up but I guess we’re at time anyways so thanks Andrew really for sharing um and um any other last points you want to bring up uh nah mostly I want to thank you for hosting this I mean on an annual basis I do think these types of things are important um like I’ve been thinking about like you know I mean again I’m not like the

(46:28) adoption marketing kind of specialist in in by any means but um but I do think like rituals are important you know having built some companies and things like that um I mean what are like what is a company without like you know weekly meetings and monthly readings and quarterly reviews or like stand-ups and things like that and so so without that you don’t have much like cohesion um I mean religions what’s a religion without you know Sunday service or or you know Shabbat dinner or you know what have you um and so

(46:59) yeah I think I think you know this annual um annual Rachel I think has been amazing um thank you for hosting this and thanks to you know your entire team um for doing this um yeah but I mean in general I’d like to see I think the um the Rings idea is really cool um yeah yeah yeah and then um yeah and thanks to everybody thanks for everybody for being here and being excited about handshake um yeah adoption and progress yeah adoption in progress uh yeah I think you might see the chat box but yeah people are really happy and

(47:40) uh we are gonna keep pushing I mean we want to do it in person this year I mean I don’t know we’re I don’t know I almost think it’s better at it’s been three years online and it can be much more easily globally accessible but we might try but the Rings yeah I think Rings would be a good way for people because that’s what Johanna says from his ethereum experience you know organizing ethereum meetups in Hong Kong and doing the meetups was a really good way for adoption for ethereum in the early days

(48:05) I think you said 2014 or so I agree I mean vitalik also was traveling all over the place uh doing that so let’s let’s try to use this Rings idea you can see it’s handiconda XYZ Rings we’ve got a whole bunch of applications all around the world and we’re lucky to have Ann I want to shout out and she’s you know uh she’s on our in my you know Works in my in our company uh our my day job our day job marketing and you know it’s she’s fallen in love with this and she’s already

(48:34) hyped up to help with the Rings so yeah okay Andrew Well I think we’ll we’ll wrap up I think we’ll close this session we’ll do one more closing I’ll just go on and thank sponsors and such and then we’ll call it call it an event um all right thank you so much thanks again Andrew really [Music]